Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Anything to do with UK services (BBC Satback) on Intelsat 907 at 27.5° West.
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Re: Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Postby Snap » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:52 pm

This is the complete thread from the old forum:

Post by hwessinx on Jan 18, 2013 at 4:15pm

Concerned of the difficulty of obtaining good reception of UK channels in e.g. Stockholm Sweden I recently read in a German satellite magazine that all BBC, ITV1 and Ch4 are sent via Intelsat 907 W27.5 degrees. The footprint seem to cover northern europe with a significant signal strength (e.g. Sweden and Finland 50.6 dBW).

Does anybody have any experience concerning this avenue to successful BBC reception? Seems to be encrypted with BISS (of which I only know that it is said to be simple to hack).

=========================================================

Post by EXPAT on Jan 18, 2013 at 4:20pm

This is a backup service for terrestrial PSB multiplexes, they are all encrypted in BISS.
We do not post information about encryption keys on the forum, do a Google search and I am s ure you can find plenty of information.

=========================================================

Post by hwessinx on Jan 18, 2013 at 4:26pm

My issue was NOT encryption keys at all. Just wished to know if anybody had succeeded in going the 27W way instead of the 28E way?

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Post by PaulR on Jan 18, 2013 at 5:58pm

The simple answer to that is yes. Whilst the BISS encryption is not the most secure in the world there is the real possibilty that if too many people access this service and, even worse, make a big noise about it then it may go more secure. There are already stories of unscrupulous companies in the Iberian peninsula offering this as a solution.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

=========================================================

Post by hwessinx on Jan 18, 2013 at 6:24pm

OK! Point taken. I withdraw any further comments. Thank you!
Why not delete the thread!

=========================================================

Post by EXPAT on Jan 18, 2013 at 6:34pm

No reason to delete, it is a valid question, the problem is, viewing these services is not authorised by any of the braodcasters.
There are no official viewing cards available. So anyone promoting this option would be involved in illegal activity, not something we would like posted on the forum.

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Post by bema on Jan 19, 2013 at 5:30pm

Even if it's not "authorized by any of the broadcasters" I don't think it's forbidden (at least in Sweden) to put in some numbers in your receiver to get the channels !!?? But maybe you break some laws if you actively sell systems or receiver to others..

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Post by EXPAT on Jan 19, 2013 at 6:23pm

I think you will find it is illegal decrypting copyright content and in a country where viewing is not authorised by the broadcasters.
BISS is an encryption system just like Conax, NDS and Viaccess.

Try asking at http://www.stopnordic.com
;D

=========================================================

Post by bema on Jan 20, 2013 at 10:16am

As I understand the laws, it's forbidden to distribute equipment, codes etc but not illegal to "use" the codes...but this will maybe change...

http://www.sydsvenskan.se/kultur--nojen ... -olagligt/

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Post by frederikshavn on Jan 20, 2013 at 11:07am

Jan 19, 2013 at 6:23pm EXPAT said:
I think you will find it is illegal decrypting copyright content and in a country where viewing is not authorised by the broadcasters.
BISS is an encryption system just like Conax, NDS and Viaccess.

Try asking at http://www.stopnordic.com
;D
Luckily none of those are on freesat...

=========================================================

Post by jacobo40 on Feb 17, 2013 at 10:32pm

I suspect for those trying to access the "mini-Freesat" channels at 27.5º West on their own, the legal considerations are moot. Using a symbol rate of 44,100 (Freesat uses 22,000/23,000) they are beyond the reach of most receivers, even when the latter show decent reception signals.

Maybe our efforts would be better directed at identifying those receivers that are able to flush out Astra 2 Freesat signals in marginal areas. If you are not locked-in to dedicated receivers (such as with S*Y subscriptions, for example) general coverage units might do the trick. My own situation provides an example. I use a Fonestar 580 HD and a Spiderbox 9900 HD. The Fonestar has handled the new Astra 2F transponders with no complications. The Spiderbox can receive four of the transponders well, but it can't handle the BBC channels on the new Transponder 61 (11.023) despite all sorts of tweaking.

But even the most sensitive of general overage units won't work miracles. Your location and the rest of your receiving equipment has to give you a decent chance of receiving Freesat. In marginal areas however, they might make the difference.

Regular, updated , hands-on information on those receivers that perform particularly well could prove useful for some people on the forum.
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In UK: Humax Freesat HDR. YouView HD & BT Infinity. VPN: http://vibevpn.co.uk
See satellite news at: http://www.skyinmadrid.com/pages/news.html
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Re: Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Postby Expat » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:04 pm

Intelsat 907 at 27.5°W Footprint - Spot 1, which carries the Freeview PSB backup service, BBC, ITV and Channel 4.
Attachments
intelsat907.jpg
Intelsat9 07 Spot1
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Re: Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Postby hwessinx » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:10 pm

Hi,

I have now in vain been trying to capture 27.5 W. So far no success. I use 72x82 cm Nokia dish, with an Inverto Black LNB for HD and DVD-S2 also. I try to capture the satellite with the help of a Satlook Lite (Emitor.se) instrument. I have tried different azimuths and elevations around the critical aiming point. And all I get is noise, which increases when I put my hand across the LNB (heat). Of course I have verified that the SatLook Lite works like a breeze for other satellites like 5W and 1E etc. The line of sight I've verified with an Align a Sight calibrator, and it should be OK. On the verge but still OK.I have tried to match the satellite position with the sun-alignment at (16.09 GMT+2) which is my passage moment. So now I wonder after having also failed to capture 22W and neighboring satellites, what systematic error am I doing...
I have done a lot of installation but this goes over my head.
Can anybody help please?!

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Re: Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Postby stars » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:40 pm

27°W — Intelsat 907 (IS-907)
Ku-band Spot 1 Beam
Distance to satellite: 40238.1km
Location: 59.36°N 18.11°E
Elevation angle: 12.6°
LNB Tilt (skew): -22.8°
True azimuth: 229.4°

If I remember right you are for the Stockholm area ?

Have you adjusted the LNB Skew ?

Try to get Hispasat at 30.0W there are many "normal" and strong transponders on that sat.
Then turn the dish slightly to the east and see what happens. The LNB skew differans is only 1 deg.
so you can fine tune it later.

regards stars
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Re: Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Postby hwessinx » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:52 am

Thanks,

I feel I have been trying it all, but a new go is needed. The 72 cm should be sufficient according to all diagrams. Yes I'm situated in Stockholm and use a SMW-1600 for 4E to 28 E, a small Canal Digital dish for 1W and 5W and was now going to try the 27.5 W. I use a Technomate 5402 M2 receiver which I think is very good.

Hispasat ought to be found.

I'll keep you posted.
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Re: Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Postby stars » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:32 am

Hi I took a look at your receiver manual.
At page 23 Demodulator section
Symbolrate DVB-S 5 to aprox 45 Msps
Symbolrate DVB-S2 10 to aprox 30 Msps

The transponder is using DVB-S2 QPSK 44100 9/10

So maybe your receiver can't handle the high symbolrate.

There can be a firmware update to fix this problem but I think the symbolrate limit is a hardware limitation

Here is the manual http://www.technomate.com/support/TM-5402%20HD%20Manual.pdf

regards stars
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Re: Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Postby hwessinx » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:15 am

Sorry I should have been back to you earlier.

But I have made new trials, and no result what so ever. So far I've been using the SatLook lite (SLL) to track the satellites but it has not worked. The SLL works well for other satellites, but it can not trace 44100 Ms/s, or S2. But it should work with the other satellites DVB-S transponders on 24W 30W, which I have tried in vain.

What concerns the Technomate 5402 M2, I have been informed that it shall work with the SatBack transponder quite well. But you point to a section I have not noted before. Perhaps this will raise a problem further down the line when I eventually have found the IS-907 satellite! Life ain't easy.

I have tried the Tecnomate with DVB-S BISS encrypted channels though and it worked like a breeze.

I will try to get hold of a 100-120 cm dish to see if it will make a difference. My only explanation now is dish size, or the fact that there is actually a tree in the way.......

Regards
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Re: Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Postby Expat » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:45 pm

I would imagine that here in Copenhagen, the dish would have to be quite high up to be able to look that far west?
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Re: Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Postby Peter » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:33 pm

Expat wrote:I would imagine that here in Copenhagen, the dish would have to be quite high up to be able to look that far west?


It should not be a big problem to receive Intelsat 907 at 27.5°W in Copenhagen. The elevation is 17.34°in Copenhagen which is rather low but I´ve tried to receive this satelliteposition here in Falkenberg (where the elevation is even lower 16.47°) some years ago and it was no problem finding a clear view towards the satellite from my garden.

What you should check is if there are any obstacles close to the dish see exampels below.

elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 5 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 1,56 m
elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 10 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 3,12 m
elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 15 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 4,68 m
elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 20 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 6,24 m
elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 25 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 7,81 m
elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 30 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 9,37 m
elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 35 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 10,93 m
elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 40 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 12,49 m
elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 45 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 14,05 m
elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 50 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 15,61 m
elevation: 17.34°, distance to obstacle: 100 m, maximal height of obstacle for a clear view towards the satellite: 31,22 m

The FEC 9/10 means very poor error correction which makes it hard to receive when the signal is weak but with a 90 - 100 cm dish it should be no problem to receive the transponder 11495 V if your satellite receiver can handle the high symbolrate 44100 and the BISS encryption. You should also select a LNB with high LO stability like PLL- LNB for better performance. The skew setting is also extremly important to get good reception of this transponder, the skew setting in Copenhagen is +23.74°which means that you should tilt the whole dish 23.74°towards west or rotate LNB 23.74°towards west (anti clockwise, when you´re standing infront of the dish).

/ Peter
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Re: Intelsat 907 and the BBC-SATBACK

Postby Expat » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:46 pm

Ok, thanks I will give it a go soon. Not that I have much use for it, though it would be interesting to take a few screenshots and readings.
2E or not 2E, that is the question!
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